this post was submitted on 24 Jan 2024
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[–] orclev@lemmy.world 20 points 10 months ago (3 children)

How we got here is really easy, we've arrived at the ground state of First Past The Post voting. Once you have two extremists facing off against each other it takes a massive effort to get a non-extremist into office as you can just cruise into an easy victory by running your own extremist against your opponents extremist. Each side effectively has a lock on their own party and it comes down to which extremist will be slightly less off-putting to the independents. In this case the extremist on one side has aspirations to be a dictator, while the other side is so utterly bland he makes milk look spicy. If Biden was any less progressive he'd literally be a Republican.

That's basically what Biden is banking on, that he's so utterly boring and milquetoast that more independents will vote for him over the wannabe dictator of Trump while still getting enough Democrats to hold their nose and vote for him just to deny Trump the win.

[–] takeda@lemmy.world 32 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

You're kind of contradicting yourself. On one hand you are saying two extremists then later about that Biden is right centre.

I agree with the later part. At this moment we have one extremist and one right center guy. The reason Biden is running is to be still appealing to Republicans and independents to dissuade them from voting for trump.

Though, so much effort was put by media to make him look like he is Karl Marx reincarnated.

[–] 1stTime4MeInMCU@mander.xyz 6 points 10 months ago (1 children)

It is a little bit of a contradiction and I had a hard time following the logic. But your post made me think of something else. If you have one extremist candidate by definition you have two, because from the perspective of the followers of the atypical extremist candidate (a trump like figure) status quo will be an extreme for them

[–] orclev@lemmy.world 5 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Extremism needs to be judged by the standards of that party in this context. An extreme Democrat is either a radical socialist like Bernie Sanders, or utterly non-progressive like Biden. Likewise extremist for the GOP would be a fascist like Trump, or someone so far left as to almost qualify as a progressive.

[–] takeda@lemmy.world 10 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I can't help but notice that you couldn't come up with leftist GOP extremist.

I think you were able to do it with Democrats was because Democrats are really everyone else who doesn't identify themselves as Republicans. With the first past the post, those different parties have no option but to work together as one.

[–] orclev@lemmy.world 0 points 10 months ago

I couldn't list the left of the GOP because I don't honestly follow the GOP besides the nearly daily disgust at the things they do. There has to be a far left for the GOP, I'm just not sure who that is (probably because they aren't making the headlines, just quietly doing what they can to hold back the rest of the monsters in their party). Whose the least offensive Republican you can think of? That's probably the far left for them.

[–] Pratai@lemmy.ca 5 points 10 months ago

Democratic socialism isn’t “radical.”

[–] SonnyVabitch@lemmy.world 25 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Give me milquetoast extremism or give me death!

I don't really understand your charge against Biden. Skimming headlines from afar it seemed like he was supposedly the most progressive president in a very long time. Where do you think one should read up on his record in office if we want to judge his presidency?

[–] orclev@lemmy.world 7 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Biden has largely just maintained the status quo. He hasn't done anything to meaningfully progress anything. None of the problems facing the US or the world have been even remotely addressed by him. The best that could be said is he hasn't made most things any worse, although he's really giving it the college try with his support for Israel recently. The only reason Biden looks remotely progressive is because he undid all the stuff Trump fucked up. Just because the previous guy was running backwards doesn't mean you get credit for returning to where you started when you've done fuck all since then.

As for where to find his accomplishments, I've got no idea as he has very few worth mentioning. He's managed to keep the economy going so there's that I guess, and he supported Ukraine, but really that should be considered the bare minimum. Domestically he's doing nothing of particular note.

[–] vividspecter@lemm.ee 17 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

Climate change is by far the most serious problem facing the US and the IRA is a genuinely substantial step towards addressing that.

[–] orclev@lemmy.world 2 points 10 months ago

Sadly too little too late. Something like that if done a decade or two ago might have worked, but at this point it's a bandaid on a sucking chest wound. Dealing with climate change is going to require not only the kind of investment the IRA authorizes but equivalent foreign policy pushes, as well as a significant domestic PR campaign. The petrochemical companies have been allowed free reign to push their messaging for too many decades and now a significant portion of the US literally believes climate change is a hoax. It's going to take something like the public awareness campaign that was instituted against tobacco companies to undo that damage and the best time to have done that was a decade ago. The second best time is now.

[–] SonnyVabitch@lemmy.world 5 points 10 months ago

That's an interesting perspective, thanks for sharing.

Just because the previous guy was running backwards doesn't mean you get credit for returning to where you started when you've done fuck all since then.

I disagree with this point enthusiastically. If he steered the boat ten miles up river, that's still a major achievement, especially if the previous captain had just drifted from bank to bank while he was actively putting holes in the hull. We don't know how Biden would have sailed if he'd taken charge where the previous guy did, maybe he'd have stayed in one place, gone down stream, or maybe he'd taken another ten miles the right way, we'll never know.