1041
A reminder to all you far left and far right nutjobs that think Joe Biden has done nothing significant in office
(lemmy.world)
this post was submitted on 18 Jan 2024
1041 points (83.2% liked)
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If you want leftists to vote for dems, despite dems pissing on leftists at every possible chance and yelling at leftists to fall in line, I'll show you how.
Point out that voting will never, ever, ever move the democrat party to the left. You cannot vote the party harder to the left.
Point out that Republicans are going to remain fascists.
Point out that voting third party is a spoiler vote and will result in fascists winning.
Point out that the actual way to move to the left is to unionize and organize at the grassroots level, to apply bottom-up pressure on the top.
The answer is not to pretend that Biden is anything other than a Neoliberal Capitalist. Leftists will correctly point out that Biden is still a lukewarm neoliberal maintaining the status quo, and feel further alienated by being told they should love him anyways. That just encourages voter apathy.
My local democratic party texted me to ask me to consider running for office (I live in a very deep red state). I laugh at the idea, because I'm pretty sure that they don't want a pro-2A anarchist and Satanist running under their name. My wife nixed the idea because she doesn't want us to get firebombed.
You should run dude. I'm dead ass serious. You can win rural districts where dickless corporate bootlicking democrats can't.
Here's the secret code: Don't run as a Democrat. Run as an independent.
Grass roots too. All you need is name recognition and no one, I mean no one, will know what you are actually like.
We need people like you to run though, it's hard to vote for it if nobody is running to represent the platform. Especially at the local level where it can make a big difference.
Lmmfao, they already made it clear why they couldn't run (dems wouldn't want them anywhere near their name), never mind that even if they did they'd never get anywhere near power. Just look at the treatment lukewarm Sanders gets for merely suggesting to tax the rich, just imagine what the propaganda machine would do with a self declared anarchist...
You people still don't get it, do you - the system is running as it was designed to, you never were and never will be who it works for.
word, the USA cares more about protecting it's corporations than it's citizens
and every USA citizen believes they will be rich one day, let that sink in person reading this. lmao 😂🫵
It worked for Diddlin' Donnie.
To quote myself,
I'm sure you think that's a joke. I assure you, it's not.
Im not American but thinking about getting my citizenship before 2032ish (so out of this voting cycle and maybe the next) actually, the more I hear about voting for a third party is a waste, the more tempting it is. Not saying that because I'm trying to be an edge lord, or a trump supporter, or whatever else I'm sure someone will accuse me of - but because if your policy dept is so out of ideas that all you have is "vote for us or else... ...you... will have voted for someone else. And they might be bad. Neener neener" then surely anything except the Biden/Trump dichotomy has got to be worth a try?
Then to top it all that my vote won't make a difference, to either party, it's just pro forma so we can flip between blue Reagan and red Reagan every 8 years like normal... like - how is that not an invitation to want to fuck the system and look at third parties?
If there was no point in voting for a third party because the I didn't have to hold my nose because Democrats smelled good then you'd have no argument from me.
Voting for third party presently is voting for a spearhead with no spear. There's no mass movement for it, thus no pressure to actually stand up to the massive DNC or GOP. That's why leftists need to touch grass and organize, so that third party can be viable.
Getting the order wrong means more GOP fascism in office, getting the order right means an actual third party becomes viable.
Voting will move the party left, if people vote for that. But they don't because leftists are a tiny, fringe political minority. That's why Biden is in office and not Bernie.
Can't wait to prove you wrong at the democratic primary oh wait shit we're not really doing one of those for some reason
What do you think would happen that would prove me wrong? A democratic primary is a great way to increase the chances of a Republican victory.
Or it will make it worse. Its not 1976.
Voting will not move the party left. The only reason the dems are in power at all, is because the vast amounts of wealth of Capitalists support them. There's no bottom-up pressure. Even if Bernie was in office, he'd have to fight tooth and nail with the democrats to get things done, not just the Republicans.
I have been to every size of town and city all over the US and it doesn't appear leftists a fringe minority. The people that accurately labels themselves as a leftist is probably a minority, but many many people are adherents of left wing views, but with no accessible way to push or vote for their ideals. People will support socialist policies without realizing as well, like guaranteeing healthcare or housing for all. People's ideas of politics are all over the place in the US.
Part of the issue that drives us to point out what Biden has done is that we often get a response of "BOTH sides are fascists and exactly the same, so why should I care?", which then must be refuted.
Otherwise I agree entirely.
The answer to that kind of framing isn't to show how good the dems are, but how bad the Republicans are. Again, the dems are not interested in appealing to leftists in any way, so again, this kind of posturing is what encourages leftist voter apathy.
If a leftist says both sides are the same, show how much worse Republicans treat anyone that isn't a cishet white male over the age of 35, and how legitimately dangerous they can be for our loved ones that aren't in that category, even if they are.
But that's the thing, when we point out that the GOP treats anyone that isn't a cishet white male like dogshit, the inevitable refrain is that the Dems are 'just as bad'. How are we supposed to refute that without pointing out policies of the Dems that are, quite explicitly, NOT 'just as bad'?
The only way to move the party to the left is to get more involved. Whining that they aren't reaching out won't achieve anything. A party is made up of people. Want the party to move more left and reach out further left? Be one of those people in the party and do it yourself, don't expect others to do it for you.
No, a party is an interest group. Both major US parties act in the interest of the bourgeoisie and the US voting system is designed to make it hard to contend that. Until you guys discover representational voting on a national level, the democracy will falter.
Yep. And work outside of it.
But mostly be involved and become a leader in your community. Find ways to engage with people, identify their needs, and address them.
So sad to see Lemmy is downvoting something like this. Really shows how clueless even the most politically opinionated are.
People love making this argument until you actually show up and get bullied for not showing up sooner then bullied for having different priorities than the herd then bullied for not supporting the milquetoast candidate at the moment.
Dems are just as faschie, even at the local level. You can't move people left who are just as religious about their mid right position as christofascists are theirs.