this post was submitted on 20 Oct 2023
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By Henri Astier BBC News


Israel has suggested that the long-term aim of its military campaign in Gaza is to sever all links with the territory.

Israeli Defence Minister Yoav Gallant said that once Hamas had been defeated, Israel would end its "responsibility for life in the Gaza Strip".

Before the conflict, Israel supplied Gaza with most of its energy needs and monitored imports into the territory.

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[–] WalrusDragonOnABike@kbin.social 28 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Destroy people's homes, utilities, food, etc, then pulling out and saying "not my problem" while people die from lack of basic necessities and medical care as a result of Israel's destruction and Israel does a pikashocked face while continuing to do whatever they can to limit aid getting in still seems pretty bad. Like, better than stealing the Territory...

[–] MxM111@kbin.social 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

It is a long term goal, not immediate goal. Having Palestine state (without Hamas) responsible for itself is a good thing.

[–] buzziebee@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

Seeing promising things about a 2 state solution being discussed at the Cairo peace summit. Let's hope after the violence cooler heads prevail and we can see a lasting peace in the region.

[–] Cosmonauticus@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I would just expect another militant group to take their place. Every bombing essentially creates a new radicals. Would you really expect Palestinians to just forget about all their dead realitives?

[–] MxM111@kbin.social 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I hope they will remember why they have dead relatives. A lot of Germans died too during WW2, but they did make right conclusions.

[–] Cosmonauticus@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Funny how you compare them to the Germans when the Palestinians are the ones being ethnically cleansed.

This is more like the Afghan war. Everytime you bomb a civilian you create a new enemy.

[–] probablyaCat@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago

Do you know what ethnic cleaning means? That it is different from genocide. Genocide is a method of ethnic cleansing, but not all ethnic cleansing is genocide. For example, Gaza did experience ethnic cleansing when Israel agreed to demilitarize the area and remove all settlements. All the Jews were forced out and it became essentially completely Arab.

A peace deals that involves land swaps can be considered ethnic cleansing. But it doesn't involve killing anyone. What is happening is a fucking war. It is between an underdeveloped region and a very developed nation, but it is war. And you can absolutely bring up war crimes, rules of engagement, etc. But at least know what those things mean.

[–] probablyaCat@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

See people always say this, but it isn't some universal truth. Often people get exhausted and would prefer a shaky peace with a compromise over writing about random bombs and rockets.

The IRA and Ireland (I've often seen people comparing Hamas to the IRA situation, but just imagine if the IRA had been demanding not only a united Ireland, but they also wanted England, Scotland, and Wales too). ETA and basque country. Although there are a lot more extremist groups in that region that could take hold, I will admit. Which is why Israel is likely planning on a wider more strict dmz until peace can be agreed upon and sustained. And if it cannot, then Gaza should probably work on their Egyptian diplomatic relations and a 3 state solution is more likely here.

Because even if you want to think bad things about Israel's government, they are working hard on diplomacy in the region and do not want repeated war with Gaza to sidetrack it. They were supposed to have diplomatic talks with Saudi Arabia until Hamas attacked them. Already have them with several Arab league nations. A large dmz, Hamas removed from power, and Gaza being forced to work with Egypt might accomplish that.

[–] JoeCoT@kbin.social -3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

They'll steal the territory after they've starved out anyone who was able to resist it.

[–] probablyaCat@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

They had complete control of Gaza and the whole Sinai Peninsula. Which quadrupled the size of land Israel controlled. But they gave control back to Egypt to make peace in 1978. Then in 2004-05 they completely withdrew from Gaza and dismantled and (sometimes forcefully) removed all settlements and settlers in an attempt at making peace.

Now in the first situation since for 45 years, the two groups have maintained peace. The other Arab nations were less peaceful with Israel, however. Islamic jihadists even assassinated Sadat. But there has been peace with Israel.

In the second, they used it an opportunity to essentially become a terrorist controlled territory. And increased the attacks. And reject any peace negotiations.

So what should Israel do? What solution might you suggest.

[–] jet@hackertalks.com 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If they want to make Gaza a independent state, then let them have unrestricted maritime trade access with the world. Build them enough water and power capability to self sustain - then they can truly say 'we did all that we could do, our responsibility is over'

This escape from new york style prison city with no trade, no water, no electricity, and no imports, isn't going to make peaceful neighbors.

Populations that co-depend on each other for economic success are more peaceful, trade, and integration are keys to long term stability.

[–] mwguy@infosec.pub 1 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Why would they do that? They pulled out of the territory in 2004 in an attempt at peace. Every Jew who wanted to live there has been forced out.

[–] SkyezOpen@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Really? No settlers on Palestinian land since 2004? Really?

[–] probablyaCat@kbin.social 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] gmtom@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Palestine is more than just Gaza. You think they are going to be okay with Israel stealing their land as long as they are notstealing land from the giant open air prison?

[–] mwguy@infosec.pub -1 points 1 year ago

If the government of the West Bank was organizing this violence I'd be a lot more understanding of the violence.

[–] mwguy@infosec.pub 3 points 1 year ago

0 in the Gaza Strip. 0 in the land that Hamas administers. 0 amongst the people that started the conflict.

[–] filister@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

Ah yes, "Israel continues to maintain direct control over Gaza's air and maritime space, six of Gaza's seven land crossings, maintains a no-go buffer zone within the territory, controls the Palestinian population registry, and Gaza remains dependent on Israel for its water, electricity, telecommunications, and other utilities."

I guess Gazans should have been really grateful for that...

[–] probablyaCat@kbin.social -2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Edit: responded to the wrong comment.