this post was submitted on 08 Sep 2023
147 points (93.5% liked)

Programming

17494 readers
120 users here now

Welcome to the main community in programming.dev! Feel free to post anything relating to programming here!

Cross posting is strongly encouraged in the instance. If you feel your post or another person's post makes sense in another community cross post into it.

Hope you enjoy the instance!

Rules

Rules

  • Follow the programming.dev instance rules
  • Keep content related to programming in some way
  • If you're posting long videos try to add in some form of tldr for those who don't want to watch videos

Wormhole

Follow the wormhole through a path of communities !webdev@programming.dev

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
snowe@programming.dev
Ategon@programming.dev
MaungaHikoi@lemmy.nz
147
I wish writing SQL queries was more popular than ORMs (lemmy.ml)
submitted 1 year ago by cyclohexane@lemmy.ml to c/programming@programming.dev
64 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

Some backend libraries let you write SQL queries as they are and deliver them to the database. They still handle making the connection, pooling, etc.

ORMs introduce a different API for making SQL queries, with the aim to make it easier. But I find them always subpar to SQL, and often times they miss advanced features (and sometimes not even those advanced).

It also means every time I use a ORM, I have to learn this ORM's API.

SQL is already a high level language abstracting inner workings of the database. So I find the promise of ease of use not to beat SQL. And I don't like abstracting an already high level abstraction.

Alright, I admit, there are a few advantages:

  • if I don't know SQL and don't plan on learning it, it is easier to learn a ORM
  • if I want better out of the box syntax highlighting (as SQL queries may be interpreted as pure strings)
  • if I want to use structures similar to my programming language (classes, functions, etc).

But ultimately I find these benefits far outweighed by the benefits of pure sql.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] u_tamtam@programming.dev 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

ORMs introduce a different API for making SQL queries, with the aim to make it easier.

I wouldn't say that, but instead, that they strive to keep everything contained in one language/stack/deployment workflow, with the benefit of code reusability (for instance, it's completely idiotic, if you ask me, that your models' definition and validation code get duplicated in 3 different application layers (front/API/DB) in as many different languages.

ORMs are not a 100% solution, but do wonders for the first 98% while providing escape hatches for whatever weird case you might encounter, and are overall a net positive in my book. Moreover, while I totally agree that having DB/storage-layer knowledge is super valuable, SQL isn't exactly a flawless language and there's been about 50 years of programming language research since it was invented.

[–] verstra@programming.dev 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

You, my friend, should try EdgeDB. A database and an ORM in one.

When you change the data model, you can get to 100%, which you say is impossible for ORMs

[–] u_tamtam@programming.dev 1 points 1 year ago

This is a project I am already keeping a close eye on, but I would rather qualify it as a "better SQL" than as an alternative to your typical (framework's) ORM. For instance, it won't morph CRUD operations and data migrations into a language/stack that's native to the rest of the project (and by extension, imply learning another language/stack/set of tools...)