382
Squabbles, another recent reddit alternative, seems to be taking the doomed "free speech" path
(i.imgur.com)
this post was submitted on 10 Aug 2023
382 points (95.7% liked)
13633 readers
1 users here now
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Good context, I didn't realize they don't have downvotes. That changes things a bit, the downvote is a fairly necessary mechanic for facilitating any type of serious discussion online.
But I'm still curious if anyone can rationally explain why saying "I don't like gay people" is worthy of a ban? Personally I would never say that, because it's an idiotic statement. But why is that unacceptable for someone to say?
There's a very simple response... "Why not?". And depending how they respond to that, they could definitely end up in banworthy territory. Or perhaps they might respond with an obvious misconception that could present an opportunity to educate someone on their ignorance.
Because that is an absurd reduction, and not based in reality. In reality, nobody got banned for saying: "I don't like gay people". What people were saying was so much worse. Hell, even describing the issue as homophobia is absurdly reductive. While I'm in no way saying homophobia isn't a thing anymore, it's much less of a hot-button issue among deplorables than it was 10 years ago. These days, they mostly focus on whether or not trans people exist, and how bad they're allowed to make trans people's lives before it constitutes "hate speech".
Make no mistake, this change in site terms will absolutely mean a rise in bigoted shit being posted there. That's the MO of bigots: they say and do awful things, then try to gaslight you into thinking that really, what they said and / or did was not that bad, and besides, it's free speech, innit? Managing an internet community is a never-ending fight against hordes of awful people who constantly try to turn that space into the next version of 8chan. You give Nazis an inch, next thing you know, they're taking Poland.
These days saying “biological sex exists” gets you banned on Reddit and even on some instances here going by the mod logs.
No it doesn't. That is another absurd reduction. Are you intentionally lying, or do you actually believe your own hyperbole?
Nobody, and I do mean nobody, would dispute that "biological sex exists". That is a ridiculous straw man. What all of the people who are educated on the topic will say is that biological sex and gender are two different things. What bigots and morons hear is "Hurr durr biological sex doesn't exist".
Yes it absolutely does. No amount of calling it a straw man will change this. People absolutely are now saying that biological sex isn’t a thing - you only need to look at “assigned male/female at birth”. No one is “assigned” a sex at birth, it’s observed.
Try throwing gaslighting out there next too, that usually goes hand in hand with straw man.
Ok, so delusional enough to believe your own hyperbole, then. Got it. Straight up crazy with a persecution complex.
Yes. Biological sex is observed, and then written on the birth certificate. Or in other words, "assigned". Also, there are occasions when someone is born intersex, and the doctor chooses. Well documented cases of this happening.
Well, sorry if my using the terms accurately offends you, snowflake. But if you're gonna say crazy, irrelevant shit, and then pretend that it's neither crazy nor irrelevant, you kind of have to live with the consequences of people calling you a gaslighter. Comes with the territory.
It can't be observed and assigned at the same time. No one is assigned a sex. Even if a doctor doesn't write it on a birth certificate you're still the sex that matches your chromosomes. The terms "AMAB" and "AFAB" were literally made to deny that biological sex exists lol. They literally mean "the doctor chose that I am a male or a female despite what I actually am" rather than "the doctor observed that I am a male/female".
Aww now you're getting upset and reverting to name calling lol. Definitely shows that you're winning the argument.
Also lol like clockwork with the intersex argument. Intersex people are a literal genetic deformity. They make up an insanely low fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a percentage of the population.
So, your big argument against the existence of trans people is semantics? Really? I'm telling you what assigned means when people say "assigned male/female at birth". I didn't make up the term. It's one that is in common parlance. You're so smugly wrapped up in nits to pick that you're missing the forest for the trees.
No. Incorrect. And stupid, and crazy. Nobody is denying that biological sex exists. I have no idea why you insist on pretending that they are.
Seriously, are you so insecure that you have to make up things to feel persecuted about? How pathetic are you?
Again, biological sex and gender are two completely different things. Most of the time, they're related, but not always. Which is why someone with XY chromosomes and a penis who is assigned male at birth can have the gender identity of female. It happens. Denying that is denying reality. Of course, you seem to want to choose to invent some fantasy world and then get offended when reality doesn't match it, so I'm not sure why I'm even taking the time of day to explain this shit to you. It's not even going to make it through your thick skull.
If describing you accurately is "name calling", then yes. I'm name calling. You're a snowflake. A stupid, crazy, immature snowflake. You can choose to not be one any time you'd like, but you seem to enjoy being one, so I'm not sure why you'd act all surprised when people call you out for it. Probably ties back to that whole persecution complex you've got. Poor little innocent victim. Aww.
Did I ever claim that they weren't? Why is it that you're ok with the idea that some intersex people exist while denying that some trans people exist? Is it because you can't see the differences with your eyes? Are you really so stupid that you believe that if you can't see it, it doesn't exist? Do you also believe that dyslexia doesn't exist?
The point is, we are insanely complicated organisms. Within the human spectrum exist vast amounts of variation. Some people are born intersex. Some people are born trans. Some people are born straight. Your stubborn refusal to see that says way more about you than it does about humanity.
Oh. My. God. You literally aren't reading a word I'm saying. Again with you guys it all comes back to "you're denying our existence!!" when literally no one is denying your existence. Saying "you're a male" when you identify as a woman isn't "denying your existence". Saying "Assigned Male At Birth" is, however, denying scientific and biological reality.
I'm sure you don't even see how dumb this argument you just made is. "I'm telling you what it means, therefor that's what it means even if what I'm telling you is wrong" lol.
Apart from all those who are.
Debatable still. The current use of gender is as a feeling, whereas previously it was intrinsically 1:1 linked to sex. This is what people are talking about when they say "gender ideology" and how they disagree with it. You think gender is simply a feeling. I don't.
Oh lord, the irony is too good here.
Yeah we're done here. You're clearly not of the right mental capacity or frame of mind to have a logical discussion. Shocking.
I've read everything you wrote. It's all profoundly stupid. You're trying to pretend that the phrase "assigned male at birth" means something it doesn't mean. You can look it up yourself, you know; you don't have to take my word for it. We live in an age of extreme information availability. So it's frustrating for me when you ignore all available evidence and cling to your stupid fantasy.
2 things: I'm not trans. Also, this entire comment chain started by you pretending that people were being banned because they pointed out that biological sex exists. When I pointed out that that was stupid and crazy and incongruous with reality, you doubled down. So how else am I to interpret your stance other than you love sticking your fingers in your ears, sticking your tongue out, saying "LALALA", and pretending that gender identity isn't separate thing from biological sex?
I wasn't arguing with you in the same way that telling a schizophrenic that there are no demons around him isn't arguing. It's pointing out reality to a crazy person. If you're too dumb to look it up yourself, or too ideologically blind to believe the evidence you find, then it's not an argument. It's simply a person with way too much patience trying desperately to get you acquainted with reality.
Ok. I'll bite. I'm sure you'll have no problem linking me to any mainstream arguments that biological sex doesn't exist since you believe it to be so prevalent. I'm happy to read any evidence you provide.
It's not, though. Because on my side is practically the entire weight of the scientific community, and on your side is bigots and crackpots. Refer to my previous paragraph about why that's not a debate.